Mountain Men raises authenticity questions with each new show

As the History Channel reality series Mountain Men goes forward, more questions arise regarding reality vs. television.

The depiction of the History Channel’s Mountain Men becomes more suspect the more one searches for information on the reality television show.

Turtle Island Preserve was founded by Mountain Men cast member Eustace Conway. He does seem to be the “real deal” as far as loving and living on the land is concerned. Visitors to the Turtle Island Preserve website are greeted thusly:

“We live, teach, breathe and believe in nature's governing truths. We interact with the beautiful clarifying teachings of nature as we interpret it's story. We are more about doing it than talking about it. We invite you to visit us and experience all that is Turtle Island!"

There are many programs available on Turtle Island Preserve, from camping to spoon carving to tree-house building. According to the website, “The programs at Turtle Island Preserve are powerful and effective. We dig deep reaching profound connections within us, touching our ancestral roots. ‘SIMPLY REAL’, we touch the sources of life directly, unshielded from nature's truths. Intimate and personal, we experience relationship building with the foundational essence of our existence.”

But, these programs are pretty pricey. The spoon-carving class comes in at $95; tree-house building $250; 5-day adult camp $650; and if you want a meal on-site during an activity that does not include one already, you’ll plunk down another $15. Plus, if you see Turtle Island Preserve as suggested on the website—“The easiest way to see Turtle Island Preserve is to schedule your own personal Horse Drawn Carriage Ride with Eustace! This is great for those people who want to come to Turtle Island but just can't wait for the next Open House!”—you’ll pay $75 for one person, $65 for two or more people for an up-to-two-hour ride.

Making a Living on Mountain Men

There is nothing, of course, wrong with charging for services. Everyone has to make a living, after all—nothing wrong with making an honest living. But, Mountain Men recently insinuated that Conway’s ability to make actual cash was extremely limited, and depicted him frantically chopping firewood in an attempt to make enough money to pay his property taxes. Plus, the History Channel is not particularly open about others on the Turtle Island Property with Conway. “Interns come to Eustace to learn the old ways of living with nature in a self-sustaining society,” says Conway’s bio on the History Channel website, with no reference to the money-making programs available. And, on the show itself, statements are made such as the one last night, “Eustace calls his land ‘Turtle Island.’ The 1,000-acre plot requires a great deal of upkeep. So, he trades room and board for maintaining it.” One can assume that this refers to the internships on the property, since Justin, featured on the program, is listed as an intern by the History Channel. But, The fact that they have these other money-making programs in place is avoided in discussions about the upkeep of the property, and statements such as this one insinuate to the viewer that all activities on the property are not money-making but bartered as a way for Turtle Island Preserve to continue to function.

It is possible, of course, that not a lot of people are signing up for the classes on Turtle Island Preserve, and that there isn’t a lot of income from the programs offered. But, if that is the case, why not be upfront and address it? But, as one Huliq reader commented recently:

Why is Eustace not paying his taxes, It's not like he is not making any money. Look up Turtle Island Preserve and see all the camps he has and what he charges. $95 for a spoon carving class. The show makes it seem like he has no income except for cutting down trees and selling it for firewood.

The longer this show goes on, the more staged it appears—not a good sign for the longevity of Mountain Men.

Oh, and by the way: Last night, Eustace kept saying his gun "misfired." Clearly, it did not. When a gun "misfires," there is no discharge; "misfiring" does not mean that a gun's sights are off, which is the way he appeared to be using it. Makes one wonder, in fact, whether or not Eustace Conway is the "real deal" after all.

Stay tuned.

UPDATE: Will Eustace keep his land in Season Two?
Image: Wikimedia Commons

Comments

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on
I caught the same thing about the misfire. How can someone that is supposed to know so much about the outdoors miss a standing deer 40 yards away. Also, the guy in alaska seems authentic but why would he ever leave the house on the snowmobile without a rifle. i can't see how this show can last because I was disgusted because I was catching one thing after another that seemed staged.

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on
Many of us in rural Alaska travel in the winter with no rifle. Almost all bears are in the hole by this time and wolves can hardly be viewed as a threat. Marty is clearly the real deal. The other participants on the show detract from everyone's credibility

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on
I believe they are all real, but we all know that TV likes to make drama out of everything. The real scary thing is people believe it and recite the show's as they are 100% valid! I would like to mention a couple of things(mistakes i've seen both Marty and Tom did.Both had to do with trapping. 1st is the show where they are showing Marty checking his trap sets and disbursing his scent all over the area by either blowing snow with his mouth, or wiping snow off with his hand of his trap set's. I did a lot of trapping up until I moved to AZ and am now a Mechanical Engineer. one of the main things to pay attention to is not to leave any scent. he should be checking the set's from a distance and wiping any snow off the traps with a pine branch brush, that has not been man handled! I would expect an armature trapper to know this, as it is a main ingredient of success. The second is with Tom when he trapped the two beavers. The first thing you do when you remove a beaver from the trap is to wipe it with the dry snow to dry the hair which will freeze and then break if you do not. If this is truly the way they support themselves, I hope they read this and learn from it, but I'm pretty sure it is not.

Submitted by LJP (not verified) on
Question: Does Tom EVER let mama leave home? He went off to the trade show with his home-made crafts to make money and left the pup and her at home alone. Doesn't she spend enough time alone in the house while he's out in the forest doing his "mountain-man thing"? Does she get out to go to church or have a "girl's day out"? What a lonley life for Mrs. Tom (or so the show makes it appear). Why can't SHE go out and track with dad and the pup or get out to the town diner once in a while and not have to cook a meal or eat alone. It really appears as if this woman has NO LIFE. Same thing holds true for Marty. He chooses to leave home for lengthy periods of time away from his daughter and wife. If he were to be on his deathbed and told that to live he must choose a life with them or in the wilderness without them which lifestyle would he choose? Food for thought. Why have a family, companion if you choose to spend more time AWAY than WITH him, her, them? Oh, and I don not buy the theory that they MUST have meat to survive. Marty has to get "mountain goat" meat in the highest reaches of the Alaskan mountains to survive or die of starvation? It is his choice to live and risk his life getting what he WANTS. Obviously, his wife and child take a back seat to his selfish WANTS. My opinion.

Submitted by LJP (not verified) on
Question: Does Tom EVER let mama leave home? He went off to the trade show with his home-made crafts to make money and left the pup and her at home alone. Doesn't she spend enough time alone in the house while he's out in the forest doing his "mountain-man thing"? Does she get out to go to church or have a "girl's day out"? What a lonley life for Mrs. Tom (or so the show makes it appear). Why can't SHE go out and track with dad and the pup or get out to the town diner once in a while and not have to cook a meal or eat alone. It really appears as if this woman has NO LIFE. Same thing holds true for Marty. He chooses to leave home for lengthy periods of time away from his daughter and wife. If he were to be on his deathbed and told that to live he must choose a life with them or in the wilderness without them which lifestyle would he choose? Food for thought. Why have a family, companion if you choose to spend more time AWAY than WITH him, her, them? Oh, and I don not buy the theory that they MUST have meat to survive. Marty has to get "mountain goat" meat in the highest reaches of the Alaskan mountains to survive or die of starvation? It is his choice to live and risk his life getting what he WANTS. Obviously, his wife and child take a back seat to his selfish WANTS. My opinion.

Submitted by erik (not verified) on
it was kind of hokey when tom was in all that danger of freezing to death that day when the truck wouldn't start and he thankfully got a fire lit just in time while his partner walked through all those scary freezing woods filled with waking bears. c'mon there was a huge camera crew and accompanying trailers sitting right out of camera range - like they're going to let these guys get into any kind of danger to make the show appear more 'real'. why not just admit that it was a good thing there was a camera crew there, etc etc and be actually real instead of this bs version or reality.

Submitted by chas1d (not verified) on
if marty is the real deal,why didnt he ride back with the camera man? was he too,on foot-and can eustice while tracking that deer after a " mis-fire" learn from sniffing and tasting a bone chip? and then,like all time honored indian trackers,use his gun barrel to search thru leaves and debris? how stupid do these phoney producers think we are? i will only watch to point out the idiotic stories to the less fortunates that believe it. in fact, i have more than enough evidence with out having to "mis-fire"

Submitted by NC Lawyer (not verified) on
Why even find people like Useless? Just hire actors. Let me get this straight: his misfire actually fired and knocked a perfectly clean bone chip out of the body of the deer, but they barely saw any blood before, as they said, it dried up (?) and the deer got away. This is what ancient Cherokee did? Seems legit.

Submitted by NC Lawyer (not verified) on
Why even find people like Useless? Just hire actors. Let me get this straight: his misfire actually fired and knocked a perfectly clean bone chip out of the body of the deer, but they barely saw any blood before, as they said, it dried up (?) and the deer got away. This is what ancient Cherokee did? Seems legit.

Submitted by Jerry T (not verified) on
The reason he used the gun barrel to search through the leaves is that Timber Rattlers like to bury them selves in leaves. Would be real stupid to use your hands and get bit by a rattle snake. Learn something before calling some one else out.

Submitted by NC Lawyer (not verified) on
No one said anything about that. Besides, I'd rather get a stick and poke through leaves than getting my barrel wet and muddy and whatever else from decomposing leaves. Learn something about how metal rusts and pits before you call someone else out.

Submitted by Jerry T (not verified) on
You really just do not get it do you, the barrel of a gun is treated to prevent rust, also sticking it into leaves for a moment would not cause it to rust. The barrel has a better chance at rusting from the humidity. Again, you know not what you talk about.

Submitted by Rory (not verified) on
Nobody in their right mind would use a gun barrel as a garden hoe. Most knowledgeable gun owners such as myself won't even touch the barrel with bare hands and try to only handle the stock.

Submitted by NC Lawyer (not verified) on
I have an AR 15 that I use as a potato rake. My Mossberg 500 makes for a great toilet plunger. And you haven't eaten mashed potatoes until you've scooped them up with the muzzle of a S&W J-frame. Don't you know anything?

Submitted by Rory (not verified) on
I don't know anything about farming, plumbing, or cooking so I stand corrected.

Submitted by Jerry T (not verified) on
Rory you are so wrong. Most Gun Owners wont touch the barrel? Do you really think anyone would believe that?

Submitted by Rory (not verified) on
Maybe if someone would have taught you proper firearm care your Red Ryder wouldn't be in such disrepair. Do what those with intellect do and research the subject before making a fool of yourself with an ignorant answer. If it would be easier I'd also suggest you simply go for a drive down a tree lined road while drinking heavily.

Submitted by Jerry T (not verified) on
Rory you are so wrong. Most Gun Owners wont touch the barrel? Do you really think anyone would believe that?

Submitted by NC Lawyer (not verified) on
If you do and you hold the metal parts in your hand, you are ruining your gun. But I think you probably don't own one or someone along to way would have told you this. I won't let anyone touch the barrels on my rifles. A quick trip to Google would save you from looking ignorant.

Submitted by Jerry T (not verified) on
And once again you have shown you stupidity. Not once during my military training did the the weapons instructor ever tell us that touching the barrel will ruin your weapon. IDIOT!!!!!!!!

Submitted by Rory (not verified) on
Skin acids do indeed deteriorate gun metal. <b>GOOGLE IT YOU SIMPLE MINDED BUFFOON!</B> You are obviously a product of 'Don't ask, don't tell'.

Submitted by Jerry T (not verified) on
I can not believe how stupid you are to think that "skin Acid" will erode the barrel. it would take hundreds of years of soaking a barrel in water to erode it, yet you some how think that touching it with your hand is far worse. No wonder no one on here has come to your defense, they think you are as stupid as i do.

Submitted by Rory (not verified) on
Can you not work a search engine?!? <i><b>"Wipe down the rest of your gun with a luster cloth. This is a flannel cloth that comes pretreated with a silicon lubricant. It will remove any remaining debris, including acid from fingerprints, and add shine."</i></b> ht<i></i>tp<i></i>:/<i></i>/<i></i>w<i></i>ww.<i></i>wikihow.<i></i>com<i></i>/Clean-a-Gun <i><b>"protect against moisture and fingerprint acids that can cause corrosion. Blued guns do need a little more care than stainless steel ..."</i></b> ww<i></i>w.c<i></i>alguns<i></i>.n<i></i>et Go decorate coloring books with children now you simpleton.

Submitted by GVN (not verified) on
You two are very sad individuals. Are you trying to see who's weiner is bigger? My goodness, stay on topic for crying out loud. If you want to stick your lower lip out and try the "I'm better than you are" routine find a freaking playground for crying out loud. Can you two please get a life?

Submitted by Rory (not verified) on
So you can eat my azs. The topic is one of authenticity, and that leads to the question of why someone supposedly skilled in hunting would use a gun barrel to rake leaves. Anything else or will you be leaving us now to nap in the garage with the car running?

Submitted by Rory (not verified) on
Put a sock in it and go play in traffic as we adults try in vain to educate this sock puppet

Submitted by Jay C. White Cloud (not verified) on
Wait...Wait...Rory play nice now,...WAIT...catching breath, laughing to hard...O.K. Rory play nice now, she probably is just frustrated with our ramblings...hay where'd my socks go?

Submitted by Rory (not verified) on
My original reply was removed so in comparison the latest was very nice.

Submitted by jerry thompson (not verified) on
wow wishing death upon somebody. Thanks for clarifying your maturity. Now I know you and your buddy jay are full of it. Northern one of you is older then 20. Couple of punks from what I can tell.

Submitted by Jay C. White Cloud (not verified) on
Though perhaps crass or harsh at times, most of Rory's comments are apposite and poignant. You on the other hand have been rude from the beginning, why? I have never treated you with any less respect than you have me, and have already owned the error of that way, so why continue to be so incredibly uncivil. If anyone is acting like a "punk," you really should re-read your comments. By the way, young man, I happen to be 52 years of age, so I may be a lot of things, but a "punk," is not one of them.

Submitted by Jerry T (not verified) on
No you agreeing with that little punk Rory when he wishes death upon some one, makes you a punk as well. By the way, i am in my 40's and i to served, but you dont see me bragging about it on the internet.

Submitted by Rory (not verified) on
You are too bragging about it and have been since the beginning, citing your "military training" for your expertise in firearm care. People like you are why the military needs to raise its standards but then again Forrest Gump may not have been able to pass an intelligence test but he'd be a better soldier than you in comparison.

Submitted by Jerry T (not verified) on
What ever you say little boy. You just hold on to that thought that you matter.

Submitted by Rory (not verified) on
And you keep holding onto your groin as you reply to my every post, at least until the librarian catches you and throws you out.

Submitted by Jay C. White Cloud (not verified) on
First let me thank Mechele for continuing to tolerate this diatribe as it continues. I know at this point my Don Quixote complex is most certainly showing, (or dog with bone, take your pick?) Any body, that knows me well, understand I have a hard time letting any type of misinterpretation, falsehood, or injustices go; often a positive character trait to have; (sometimes not so much.) When having a debate or conversation via the Internet, one is force to take one’s counter part in a discussion as speaking the truth as they know it about the subject and themselves. I guess that is why I have never chosen to use pseudonyms, (i.e. pen names,) I want to be viewed as being as straightforward and honest as I possibly can about myself and the subject I am addressing. So Jerry, let’s start all over, shall we. I have gone back and reread our discourse to make sure I am not out of bonds on any point. I will disregard the times you have been rude toward me, as I would like you to dismiss any indiscretion you may have perceived on my account. As far as you are concerned, within the context of this forum’s thread, I will no longer comment on what anybody else remarks about or to you, I will only speak to what you state as your perspective on a topic. That seems fare, o.k? Between you and I, because of the angst that has developed, we will only deal with facts as they pertain to the show in question, (this would better serve the readers at large, and Mechele as moderator.) Understand, I am being as straightforward, sincere, and neutral as possible, so please clarify the following and correct me if I have misread your position on these points: It is standard weapon etiquette to touch the metal of a weapon and not worry about it until the next cleaning. Skin acid is not an issue for most gunmetal. Using your weapon for other purposes than shooting is appropriate weapon etiquette. Rattlesnakes live and hide in leaves, as a common practice, and one should avoid bare skin contact with heavy leaf litter for this reason. Please do respond to this five positions you have taken, for they truly are the heart of the discussion between us. Sincerely, Jay

Submitted by jerry thompson (not verified) on
You are in fact misreading what I have said. Not once did I ever say you do not have to clean a weapon, you only assume I said that. Any one who shoots know you clean you weapon right afterwards. Also, rifle barrels are not bare metal. Many now assuage are being made from stainless stock, invade you didn't know, stainless is treated to fight rust. As far as using you weapon for other purposes, I have seen it done by professional hunters for years. I trust them far more then you. But hey if you wanna reach down and grab an animal without checking to insure It's dead go ahead. But hey I guess I am not supposed to use my arrow in that fashion either. And rattle snakes do hide in leaves, dealt with them for many of years.

Submitted by Jay C. White Cloud (not verified) on
Thank you, for the topic response. I again reread what you have said each time, including this response, so if you would please, continue with this discourse, I think other readers would benefit. I do know and acknowledge that what you have said about cleaning weapons. I never intended to imply that you did not think you should clean a weapon, sorry if it came across that way Jerry. However, I would really be please if you could simple address what I have been asking, with each of these exchanges, for the record: agree or disagree, (you can choose to validate your position, or not.) “IT IS STANDARD WEAPON ETIQUETTE TO TOUCH THE METAL OF A WEAPON AND NOT WORRY ABOUT IT UNTIL THE NEXT CLEANING.” I am well aware of the different treatment modalities that weapon manufactures are choosing to use, as well as, the different alloys being employed in there manufacture, (i.e. stainless, chrome-moly, etc.) I think we both agree that these are methods used to retard corrosion, (not arrest it.) Nevertheless, this does not change weapon etiquette, as I was taught and understand it. I to have seen hundreds, (perhaps thousands at this point,) of hunters, including those deemed professional, do things with their weapon that is neither good practice nor proper weapon etiquette. I myself, in the beginning of my professional career, had many habits that I am glade I no longer embrace. Now your statement: “But hey if you wanna reach down and grab an animal without checking to insure It's dead go ahead. But hey I guess I am not supposed to use my arrow in that fashion either.” This sounded a little “cheeky,” but we should let that slide and just address what I think you are stating. Yes a game animal of any size should be safely checked before touching it, that we both agree on. The method is another matter. Having taught big game tracking, hunting, and processing, you never use your weapon, (or any other object that would require you to approach the animal within it’s striking distance, particularly any of the large game feline, ungulates or ursid.) Yes you see it done, sometimes by professionals, that does not always make it wise; those that do often have horrific stories of when things go awry. The proper method is to get a clear visual line on the animal; chose an escape vector; (more than one if possible;) and toss some simple object, (small rock, stick, anything with some limited mass,) at the animal, and be prepared for a potential response. If none, approach with caution for a closer inspection, always aware of the animal and your escape vectors, then perhaps poke it with a long object of some type. I think, perhaps, where your idea of using the gun came from, and it is a fare assessment, but a misinterpretation of the method, would be the following. With really large or dangerous game animals, after the method described above is used, you approach the animal from a safe angle, again aware of your vectors, and, with a round-chambered place and discharge at the same time into the basal area of the skull. The point I was trying to make about rattlesnakes, (or any of the crotalids for that matter,) is that leaf litter for most species is a transient habitat. Most of the time, being exotherms, they normally seek objects with mass that can hold and maintain heat. I watch for them around objects of mass, this is where they hide most of the time.

Submitted by jerry thompson (not verified) on
Main problem I see is what you consider proper etiquette may be for you but not for others. I have taken several game animals in my day including rossevelt elk, and when I am on the hunt the last thing I am concerned with is if barrel is getting wet or did I touch it. Now I hardly rifle hunt, so when I get on an animal, I will rest that barrel on anything I have to in order to steady my self. I always clean my weapons, I will worry about the barrel then.

Submitted by Jay C. White Cloud (not verified) on
Jerry, you seem to be implying this is my etiquette,not a common standard among hunters today, while most others hold your position? Perhaps this is true, thinking about it most of the time I see more bad habits these days than good, (I am not referring to you, since we truly have never hunted together.) So I guess we can agree, I have officially become "old fashioned," and the more common practice, because of weapon durability and relaxed concern for etiquette in general, you can use a gun anyway that is perceived safe and/or functional to the situation, and clean it thoroughly later.

Submitted by Jerry T (not verified) on
No Jay, what I am saying is this is the etiquette that you live by, some live by it, some do not. As I said, I will clean my weapon when the day is done, letting it get wet, or touching will not destroy that weapon in a day. The few times i have used a rifle when i got back to the camp at the end of the day i always wiped it down or cleaned it if it was fired. And there is nothing wrong with being old fashioned. However the way you are old fashioned and the way I am old fashioned have different traits. I have friends that i don't hunt with anymore because they would either rather road hunt or sit in a ground blind and get drunk, not ,my style and I was taught differently.

Submitted by Jay C. White Cloud (not verified) on
I think I can understand more of what you are describing. I have shared or discourse with several others, (minus our blathering of the beginning,) and the younger fellows in the group all pointed out, (some, though young, are very well read and accomplished as outdoor people,) that the weapon culture of today is drastically different that when I was their age, and this has much to do with the design and construction of the modern hunting weapons. Etiquette evolves like everything else I guess, as long as respect stays intact, not all is lost. I still told them, I would give them a "wrap in the head," if I ever caught them sticking their weapon into some leaves. They all laughed. They even have a different read on the "Mountain Man," series and watch it for shear entertainment and do not get rapped up in the idiotic antics of the 3 man characters. One even pointed out that at no time has the show ever claimed to be more than a snap shot of these three man, (staged events or not,) and their individual take on rustic life, correct or incorrect. One went on to point out that the show has been compelling enough to keep a "codger," like me mildly annoyed, to the point that I am following this thread and having discussions about what is wrong with the show. He said, "You know, Jay, people learn more from mistakes, than from doing things one way all the time, you taught me that." (Student become teacher.) They have, however, begun to worry about how poorly edited the show has become and some of the blatant bad staging of scenes, such as riding horses into town, which made no since at all.

Submitted by Jerry T (not verified) on
I did not see all the episodes. The man from Montana seemed legit. Did not live a real rustic life. After all he had power and in one episode i saw a satellite dish on his property. Seemed like a regular man enjoying his retirement. As far as Turtle Island, this just seemed like a way for him to promote his business. Saw very little of the guy in Alaska so i can really not comment on him.

Submitted by Jay C. White Cloud (not verified) on
I to have not seen all the episodes, because I only can stream it on the net when it is up, usually late at night when I come into the shop office here to do my admin work and writing. I agree with you about the gentleman in Montana, he present as an ordernary citizen, actually of not much note at all. I don't see him in any light as a "Mountain Man," unless living in Montana, liking the outdoors and being male qualifies you for that distinction. Now for our Turtle Island character, Euctace, him I know of from personnel experience while living and guiding in North Carolina during my time in the Marines. (Go to heir web sight if you are at all curious, it is eye opening. Check out his "copper head" video,) He was a bit of a "left fielder," back then and has only gotten worse with time, he isn't even in "left field's," parking lot now. Very insular and narcissistic as he gets older, taking on "apprentices," (read slave labor,) to feed an aberrant ego, and not giving them much of anything in return. Your read of him as a "self promoter," is spot on. The fellow in Alaska doesn't seem that much different than the gent from Montana. Just living it in the Alaskan stile. All of this makes sense, to a degree, if you think about it. Out of your own personal experience, think of those you have know that would be qualified to be call a modern day "Mountain Man," and ask your self, if they would have anything to do with this type of show? I have had a few of my own students try and push me in the direction of one of these shows, even up to the point of talking to a producer. (the show topic would cover my other occupation as a "Timber Wright.") The producer, from HGTV had contacted my partner and wanted to follow us around as we restored and moved old barns, folk architecture from Japan and like kind adventures. All the problems we are seeing in this show, came right to the surface when talking to the producers and directors of the...I think they wanted to call it "Barn Again," or some nonsense like that. They expected us to give them a candid view of what we do, re-staging certain elements for filming and effect, with out our editorial say so, well that was never going to happen.

Submitted by Jerry T (not verified) on
I am not sure how far off the grid Euctace is, obviously if he has a web page and is advertising his little "paradise" he has electricity there. Now I actually have a, well sort of speak neighbor, who is in fact a real mountain man. He has a hand built cabin, no electricity, he either grows, hunts or catches all his own food. For the most part he stays to himself, i see him from time to time at the river or the lake. Every now and then i wonder up to see him. a few months back i let him come down and cut up some trees i have fallen so he could use it for his stove. Only modern thing he really owns is a old ford truck. He has brought me some of his veggies and extra elk meat, in exchange i worked on his truck for him. I do wonder what the guy in Alaska did for his money, no way did he make enough to afford the planes and that house on trapping alone.

Submitted by Jay C. White Cloud (not verified) on
You are spot on about our Alaskan character, I can't see him generating this life style from being a trapper or guide, (there are so many, that would seem to be better.) So that leaves us with; very successful early retirement, inheritance/trust-fund recipiente, or, (I have seen this,) a flat lander pilgrim that made it big with oil or gold, all chucked into a over romanticized way of life in the bush of Alaska, and for that I wish him God's speed. Your neighbor sounds like so many I have met. Here in Vermont they are everywhere, luddites to the nth degree, living the old ways, not asking for much or none at all from folks that may be around. These are true salt of the earth folks. They are not the type of folks that would tolerate a camera following them around, if they did, that camera would have to be wheeled in much different fashion than it is on this show.

Submitted by Jay C. White Cloud (not verified) on
I to have not seen all the episodes, because I only can stream it on the net when it is up, usually late at night when I come into the shop office here to do my admin work and writing. I agree with you about the gentleman in Montana, he present as an ordernary citizen, actually of not much note at all. I don't see him in any light as a "Mountain Man," unless living in Montana, liking the outdoors and being male qualifies you for that distinction. Now for our Turtle Island character, Euctace, him I know of from personnel experience while living and guiding in North Carolina during my time in the Marines. (Go to his web sight if you are at all curious, it is eye opening. Check out his "copper head" video,) He was a bit of a "left fielder," back then and has only gotten worse with time, he isn't even in "left field's," parking lot now. Very insular and narcissistic as he gets older, taking on "apprentices," (read slave labor,) to feed an aberrant ego, and not giving them much of anything in return. Your read of him as a "self promoter," is spot on. The fellow in Alaska doesn't seem that much different than the gent from Montana. Just living it in the Alaskan stile. All of this makes sense, to a degree, if you think about it. Out of your own personal experience, think of those you have know that would be qualified to be call a modern day "Mountain Man," and ask your self, if they would have anything to do with this type of show? I have had a few of my own students try and push me in the direction of one of these shows, even up to the point of talking to a producer. (the show topic would cover my other occupation as a "Timber Wright.") The producer, from HGTV had contacted my partner and wanted to follow us around as we restored and moved old barns, folk architecture from Japan and like kind adventures. All the problems we are seeing in this show, came right to the surface when talking to the producers and directors of the...I think they wanted to call it "Barn Again," or some nonsense like that. They expected us to give them a candid view of what we do, re-staging certain elements for filming and effect, with out our editorial say so, well that was never going to happen.

Submitted by Rory (not verified) on
In trying to decipher that mess of a post I see you now state that stainless steel is "treated" to prevent rust. Once again you are wrong as there is no "treating" such as with plating or galvanizing. Stainless steel is an alloy. Quit acting like a know-nothing know-it-all. You DO NOT use a rifle to poke things with, stir paint, mash potatoes, or clean your ears! In your case I'll make an exception on the latter. Not one person here has agreed with you but you still check back several times a day to dig your hole deeper, and digging with the barrel of a Purdy Best 12 gauge.

Submitted by Jerry T (not verified) on
Go do your home work little boy, let the adults talk.

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on
"this would better serve the readers at large" Nope, only you and your ego.

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on
Arguing over the simplest of things, my, my! Have you nothing better to do? People out of work, hungry, and not sure when things will get better. Try to spend your time and energy helping others and you will be blessed, while relieving stress, and being suprised at how good you will start to feel! Dont bother replying to me, I wont come back here again. Im saddened by the treatment of one human to another, or worse one christian to their brother or sister. May God Bless you all!!!

Submitted by Rory (not verified) on
"Northern one of you is older then 20"?!? Perhaps our disagreement stems from a misunderstanding since English is obviously a new language for you.

Submitted by Jerry T (not verified) on
Yeah i would not expect you to understand that the spell check on an android phone can be a a pain in the ass, then again, you are a pain in the ass, so maybe you would understand.

Submitted by Rory (not verified) on
Maybe you could try 'Hooked On Phonics' since I've heard it works well for slow learning children, then you wouldn't have to rely on spell check to know the difference between words like 'Northern" and phrases like 'None of you'. That wasn't even close to being a typo so finish the 12 pack you bought for lunch and refrain from posting anything else until you sober up a bit. You were wrong, I was right, and your name calling is only an admission of defeat. It would be much easier on what's left of your self esteem to simply say <i>"I'm sorry Rory, only a moron would use a gun barrel as a shovel"</i> so we could all move on.

Submitted by jerry thompson (not verified) on
Listen rory, I understand your mommy told you that your special, but its not the type of special you are thinking about. That little yellow bus you rode, was not for the important kids.

Submitted by Jerry T (not verified) on
Well i tell you what Rory, you go ahead and live by what google tells you. I have a weapon that was made in 1895, was used by the Germans in 2 world wars, it has seen its fair share of moisture and "acid", yet the barrel is still not rusted.

Submitted by Jay C. White Cloud (not verified) on
GVN, This thread is about the show, and as Rory stated, authenticity. How the characters behave is so fare from reality that it is funny, until you realize so many believe it.You don't like what is being written don't read it. Jerry T., You keep telling folks they are wrong, well let me tell you, (for the sake having Rory write a response that will once again have me falling out of my chair laughing my a_ _ off,) YOU ARE VERY WRONG! Perhaps you didn't read my response, (??? dated 25 July,) So I will restate it here for you again. 1. Timber Rattle Snakes (Cortalus h. atricaudatus and C. h. horridus) do not need to hide in leaves. That is not their base line ethology. They have evolved natural camo in such a way that they can be in plain sight and you, (especial YOU,) wouldn't every see them, and, oh, by the way I don't have to look these facts up on Google or anywhere else; I can pull them straight out of 40 years experiences working with them. 2. YOU DO NOT TOUCH GUN METAL, if you can avoid it at all! If you do, you wipe it down and you sure as hell don't use it to poke around leaves with it. Rory is right, I think you are a simpleton, especially if you truly have inherited a weapon from 1895 and treat it with such disrespect. It may have lasted this long, but in your hands it very well may be doomed unless you take better care of it. I doubt very much if you will take any of this to heart, but at least, I hope, your creditably has been labeled and other readers will disregard your advice.

Submitted by Jerry T (not verified) on
I do not believe a damn word you say. You and Rory both are trying to act like know it alls. All your googling means nothing. You know nothing of weapons, if you had known anything you would know I never said you don't clean weapons, i just said getting the barrel wet will not destroy it. I do not believe you are a wilderness expert as you claim. Please feel free to go tell a bunch of rifle hunters they should not go hunting because it might rain and the barrel of their rifle may get wet. See where it gets you. Again, my very old weapon has, I am sure, seen its fair share of being dropped in the mud, been through snow storms and rain storms. Far worse then "skin acid", yet it is still in very good condition. I think i will take the word of real weapons experts, not the word of a man who is very hard to believe You say you live off the grid, yet you have TV and Internet, hmmmmmm?

Submitted by Jay C. White Cloud (not verified) on
Let me state it again for you simpleton, I don’t need Google or any other web site, to have a interrelated and accurate dialogue on these subjects, I will leave the webs searches for you to do when you confirm the facts that I am sharing with the other readers of this thread. By they way, whether you believe me or not, gives me little or no concern at this point. Rory, NC Lawyer and I have tried to keep this light and informative, from the beginning, you have been nothing but contemptuous and arrogant. So you tell me again, who is really trying to act like a know it all? I don’t believe I, or anyone else ever made mention of anything about cleaning weapons or not getting them wet, or said you didn’t. We simple tried, obviously to no avail, to correct your assertion that it is suitable weapon etiquette to handle the bare mental of you weapon and go poking around in leave with it. You have continual resisted these facts, each time further demonstrating you ignorance. As for my back ground in experiential, wilderness and indigenous life skill education, well I guess having been raised by my elders to respect the ways of my ancestors, working as a park naturalist, guiding for 30 plus years and being the Wilderness Education Director at a Military Academy is all bull sh_t. in you view. So I guess I will keep hanging with my, how’d you put it? “bunch of rifle hunters.” In closing please reread, (if it doesn’t hurt to much,) this thread. At no time did I ever say I lived off grid, and even if I did, you moron, I could still have power to run a computer…you know the sun, solar energy or is that a little past your reach.

Submitted by Rory (not verified) on
You have proven to be unteachable. I bet your 3rd grade teacher was just as frustrated as I am when you walked into the classroom for the 4th year in a row.

Submitted by Jay C. White Cloud (not verified) on
Rory, once again, you have made following this thread, not only entertaining but enjoyable. Again I laugh till it hurts!!! Jerry T., you could abdicate your earlier comments, eat a little humble pie and I am sure all would be forgiven and forgotten.

Submitted by Rory (not verified) on
Any bets that his rifle is a Winchester <b>MODEL 1895</b> rather than a rifle built in 1895? He must have thought Walmart made a huge mistake pricing that one, LOL.

Submitted by Jerry T (not verified) on
Not surprised that you have resulted in these type of insults, seeing as how your IQ is obviously lower then your age. All you two idiots have done is try and act as if you know everything, when in fact you do not. I could sit here and point out all the flaws in both yours and "grizzly Adams" stories, but i do not wish to make you two morons look any dumber. I guarantee, if either one of you actually do shoot any weapons, that you touch the barrel all the time. Once again, i will point out that i never said you dont clean your weapon, i just said that touching it or letting it get wet will not harm. You two idiots just cant let it go, you have to try and win a battle you already lost. SO please feel free to continue with the extremely lame insults, all you have done is proven how stupid and immature you are.

Submitted by Rory (not verified) on
Learn the difference between "then" and "than" before you insult the intellect levels of others. This started with you stating that it was perfectly fine and standard practice to use a firearm as a gardening tool. You were wrong but being the blockhead that you are you just can't bring yourself to admit it. The general consensus here is that your knowledge of firearms is equal to that of an 8 year old Amish girl with Down's syndrome. Go away now and lick your wounds in the comfort of a nice warm bath with several electrical appliances perched precariously on the edge of the tub.

Submitted by Jay C. White Cloud (not verified) on
Jerry T., I will more than acknowledge that I have been insulting to you, but I do not believe anymore than you have been toward me. Perhaps that is a bit of a case of “tit for tat,” so be it. None of this changes the reality of any of the facts I have addressed on this thread about your comments. You continue, (and I am not trying to be insulting,) to demonstrate a level of stubbornness that is astonishing. Perhaps Rory has, “taken to much of the Mickey,” out on you, but really now, who started all of this. Your first endeavor was to try and assert a false hood about gun etiquette and rattlesnake behavior, and you did it impertinently. From my response you glean that I am trying to be a “know it all?” Once again I, nor anyone else, ever said you are not suppose to clean a weapon. We only spoke to proper weapon etiquette, a point you continue to resist, so why do you keep bring up that we said, “you do not clean a weapon,” we never said that, so please stop referencing a falsehood. In closing if you are not going to concede that excepted weapon etiquette is to: avoid touching the metal components of your weapon and you should never use the barrel of your weapon as a poking tool, than each time you respond to the contrary; what did you say? “All you have done is proven how stupid and immature you are,” would only apply to you. Also, by all means, please point out, “all the flaws,” in my stories? I will gladly respond, and I will keep the insults to the same level you do.

Submitted by Jerry T (not verified) on
You come up with that on your own, or did mommy help?

Submitted by Rory (not verified) on
She helped. She thinks you are an imbecile too.

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on
You must be a complete idiot. When I was a kid we stole a gun hid it in the hole where a tree had up rooted a few weeks later when we came back to get the gun it was extremely rusted. If you put your hands on a gun barrel ya better clean it or your finger prints and hand prints will rust onto the metal. That's why they make all those cleaning products.

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on
You are an idiot. They make gun oil for a reason tard. You think hunters stay inside when it rains? Maybe metro computer ridden morons like yourself.

Submitted by Anonymous (not verified) on
You are an idiot. They make gun oil for a reason tard. You think hunters stay inside when it rains? Maybe metro computer ridden morons like yourself.

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